Footy Tragic
Going Up or Going Down?
This week I am going to look at two similarly priced defenders; with players such as Hunt, Maguire, Nason and Ladson seeming to have reached their highest prices, now is the time to consider upgrading them. The question is, do you pounce on a premium player who has had a rough start to the season and is now dirt-cheap compared to his starting price, or do you look at a younger player who looks on the verge of a breakout season? The two players I will look at are Ryan Hargrave and Paul Bower – hopefully by the end of this article the answer can appear more clearly…
Paul Bower:
Bower is still a very young player – at 22 years old, he has only played 47 career games. He has always been a player whom Carlton saw plenty of promise in, so they have spent plenty of time teaching him both the art of stopping a forward, but also running off his man. In his first three years, Bower was given somewhat of an “apprenticeship” by Carlton, being given big tasks on some of the games most dominating forwards, such as Riewoldt and Franklin. The idea of this apprenticeship is to teach him defence before teaching him attack – essentially, attack is easy for a player (such as Bower) who has always played attacking football as a junior, but it is important to teach him from early in his career how to defend. St.Kilda gave the same type of apprenticeship to Sam Gilbert over the first few years of his career and we saw the results last year when he was finally allowed to combine his two crafts – defensive and attacking football.
Last year saw Bower given some rebounding responsibilities in the absence of Waite (who went down mid-season with a knee injury), and he managed to finish the season ranked second at the club for rebound-50s and as proof he is capable of reading the play well, he was also second at the club for marks from opposition kicks. Across the year he averaged 19.5 disposals per game, 5.8 marks and 2 tackles.
So far this year, Bower has only played in two games, and this is what makes his form slightly hard to read – whilst he has been fantastic in those two games, it is a much larger risk picking up a player such as him who has no real form history to base the selection on – essentially you are basing your selection on two good games and some high potential. That potential is very high though – his form graph from previous seasons shows an average of 45 in 2006, 52 in 2007, 56 in 2008, 71 in 2009, and already he is averaging 112 in 2010.
His two early high scores are certainly not unwarranted though – whilst there are plenty of players who can have an ‘out of the box’ game, and then some really rare cases where they have two in a row, a player with as much potential, promise and expected DT rise such as Bower should not be taken simply as chance. Like he became in the second half of last year, Bower is a key rebounding target for Carlton – he still takes key forwards, but Carlton have given him a licence to run off his man, a fact that made him the second leakiest defender at Carlton last year, but I believe his high quality rebounding will mean Coach Ratten won’t get too concerned. Also, with the inevitable return of Thornton and Waite, Bower is likely to get put on less dangerous forwards, allowing for more ventures upfield.
To sum up, I think Bower is a really positive choice – he has already proven this year that he is capable of some high scores, and whilst I doubt his average will stay at 112, I think he could still comfortably average around 90 points a game – a healthy return for a player of his price. His rise in stats and form are not total surprises either – he is a nominated rebounder for Carlton and his quality is recognized by Ratten, meaning he will regularly be put in ball-winning positions. As with any defender, you must expect some bad with the good, but I feel that 2010 is a year likely to filled with plenty more good than bad for Bower and his owners.
Key Stats 2010:
Kick : handball ratio – 0.8 : 1
Average Marks per game: 11
Average Tackles per game: 2.5
Average Disposals per game: 28
Breakeven: 8
Average Dream Team Points: 111.5
Price: $313,100
Key Stats 2009:
Kick : handball ratio – 0.8 : 1
Average Marks per game: 5.8
Average Tackles per game: 1.9
Average Disposals per game: 19.5
Average Dream Team Points: 71
Ryan Hargrave:
Hargrave is a very interesting trade target – he came into the season as the second most expensive defender (behind only Goddard), but has shown his owners absolutely nothing of his 2009 form, which saw him earn this hefty starting price-tag! Now I know I often make a case for players each week, telling you why they scored poorly – I blame taggers, heavy bumps, or being played out of position, however there is no player with a bigger and easier to find reason for poor scoring than Hargrave – and that is what now makes him such a bargain! In round one he scored a poor 49 points (it was later admitted he shouldn’t have played due to suffering from a head cold), round two was 69 points (and the cold excuse was given again), then in round three he injured his ankle only a few minutes into the game, finishing him on 9 points. Round four he was eased in, given very little game time, meaning he finished with only 65 points. He then missed round five with the injury and was back on the weekend, scoring himself 108 points. Get the idea?
So it hasn’t been the most ideal start to the season for Hargrave (or his owners!), but by the looks of his game on the weekend, things may be on the improve… His 108 points did get a bit lost in the other massive Bulldogs scores from the same game, however his role was more what stood out to me than how many times he got it. Whilst Hargrave spent the first quarter manning Zac Dawson, the rest of the game he was given the role of a loose defender, meaning he was free to do as he pleased. Unlike the likes of Gia and Gilbee who got most of their disposals from backwards kicking, Hargrave won most of his ball from legitimate rebounding (plus a few cheapies which this role always comes with!) – this to me says that his scoring could become somewhat consistent again. It was positive to see Hargrave back to the role that won him plenty of the ball in the past two years – the week off seems to have done his body a deal of good and this role is always going to be one he will score well in.
Clearly we are not basing Hargrave’s future scoring predictions in one good game, but on plenty of games prior to this season – it was only in the second half of 2008 that we really saw a rise out of Hargrave’s scoring; from rounds 1 – 9 in 2008, he averaged 51 points, but from rounds 10 – 22 he was averaging a much more respectable 87 as he was given more license to attack out of the backline and was often played as a lose man. His average and price rose again in 2009, and he averaged 93 points for the year – this shows that he is capable of consistently high scoring and further proves the point that his first few weeks were just aberrations caused by injury.
I don’t think there is much doubting Hargrave’s expected turn around from this point on – he is a proven scorer and in once again being played in the position that has won him so many points in the past. Whilst it may be a bit over-zealous to expect a 90-something average, his current price is still way too low to ignore; he has so far dropped $117,000 and won’t be dropping any further with a low breakeven this week. Some may want to wait another week to see if he can replicate Friday’s score against Melbourne, but personally I think that the key ingredients are there to make him a worthwhile pick; he is now injury free, he is dirt cheap, he has previously exposed good form, and is coming off a very good game. I therefore don’t see the need to hesitate.
Key Stats 2010:
Kick : handball ratio – 1.5 : 1
Average Marks per game: 4.4
Average Tackles per game: 2.2
Average Disposals per game: 15.4
Breakeven: 42
Average Dream Team Points: 60
Price: $292,100 (-$117,400)
Key Stats 2009:
Kick : handball ratio – 1.9 : 1
Average Marks per game: 7
Average Tackles per game: 2
Average Disposals per game: 24.2
Average Dream Team Points: 93

12 Comments on Going Up or Going Down?
i think ill have to filp a coin on these two its 2 hard but if i cant find i coin ill go with Bower
also Chad Corns is another one to think about.
Nice write up again, is it too sideways trading kennelly to Hargrave? I also have waters, Maguire and Nason. Was hoping waters is a keeper, Maguire an 8th for the whole season and Nason is still going up. Also if howlett gets named this week do you see him keeping it? Was thinking Bastinac to him
@dtmaster With Welsh out for 3 or 4 weeks and Dyson possibly to miss, I think Howlett may get a game this week. However, I wouldn’t be at all confident of him remaining in the team long-term – Knights appears to want to expose our rookies in bursts and he chops and changes too much for my liking.
very tempted to take the chance on bower. He gets a lot of cheap ball especially when we switch & attempt to slow the game down.
When Jamison & Waite were out last year his stocks grew massively. He became the #1 defender and to his credit did very well, often scoring quite decently in a largely defensive role.
I’ll be making this decision on friday.
I’m going hargrave but my dilemma is who to upgrade, I’m using maguire as my 7th defender and I’ve got silvagni on the bench with hams. Both still have a little more moneyto make, silvagni probably a little more but I want to keep one as my bench backup for the year. I feel maguire has more job security and scoring power though slightly injury prone but silvagni has been playing well and keeping him nets me an extra 15kish.Barring goose not get suspended and silvagni not being injured I’m pretty torn as to who to upgrade.
anyone else having heaps of trouble with the DT homepage?
Hey fellas, sorry this is a little off topic but i’m looking at finalising my last midfield position this week (Barlow has to be a keeper, surely?) and i have tentatively narrowed it down to the following 4 blokes from which i can afford.
Would appreciate some pros and cons for each:
I have my own thoughts on each at the moment, (below) but wouldn’t mind hearing others:
Kane Cornes (408k): Durable workhorse, rarely disappoints, can pretty much lock in 90-100 points from him every week which is very handy for a tagger.
Bryce Gibbs (407k): 6 rounds in and he hasn’t quite reached the lofty heights that he proved he reach last year, (perhaps due to different roles?) and in return has dropped a nice 60k of his starting price.
Daniel Cross (387k): Much the same as Kane, perfect example of consistency and will pull in 85-90+ points every week. His only obvious downfall that we’ve all come to know is that he prefers disposal by hand than foot, which is slightly frustrating from a DT perspective and really restricts him from pulling in bigger scores, which you really want from your premium mids.
Joel Selwood (379k): Has dropped the most off of his starting price out of all premium mids and has surely bottomed out due to an ordinary start to the year. Hit his straps against the Tigers last week in the absence of Ablett, but i still have reservations about his ability to handle a tag and in turn can deliver some pretty uninspiring scores.
@ Wilson – i’ll try my best!
Cross and Kornes i would say they are very similiar Dters, in that they do what they do week in week out. They’re in your team to get that 90-100, but you wouldn’t expect anything more. Between the two, i would prefer Cornes, as he does have a more complete DT game (rather the HB friendly Cross). Cornes looks like he has added more tackling pressure in his game this year.
In regards to Gibbs, im not sure what to think. Last year he was amazing, but this year, with the inclusion of Mclean, he seems to be playing at HB (ala the quarter back role) pushing Carazzo up into the midfield. from the games i’ve seen he’s playing no where near the centre bounce. He has the potential to get that 105-110 avg but the question is when will be moved to the midfield? Would be a decent pick to get him this cheap now and watch him kill it later on in the season!
Selwood – had a poor start to the season in my eye, but looks like he’s getting better each game as long as he doesn’t get the tag (which he shouldn’t!). His 126 was against richmond and no ablett so you need to keep that into account.
Anyway i’d prob pick between Gibbs, Selwood or Kornes. Gibbs/Selwood have more inconsistency(more so Selwood) but have the potential later on in the season to hit their straps, while Cornes will maintain that 100 avg.
Hope that helps!
Joker, I was just reading this article and even though I think Silvagni SHOULD be safe, this has to raise a couple of question marks. http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/93550/default.aspx
For those who don’t like clicking on links, it’s basically saying that as good as he has been he might lose his spot in the team to Grover. It also says that Headland going onto the LTI pretty much saved Silvagni from being forced back onto the rookie list.
I really like CTB’s summary of those midfielders, Wilson. In that price range personally I’d be leaning towards Kornes for the reasons that he stated.
Thanks CTB and Dan, pretty much summed up my thoughts exactly. Kane sure has the least amount of question marks over his head but if Bryce was to show a bit more of his 09 form it would definitely be him!
Also, in regards to Selwood, i wouldn’t be surprised if he gets the Kirk tag again as he did last time, especially if Ablett isn’t back.
I remember reading an interview with Selwood in a magazine the other year describing what he said it’s like getting tagged by Brett Kirk and it was actually quite incredible hey. I think this is a snippet from it from Selwood –
“He’s always talking at stoppages. You’re thinking, ‘How am I going to beat this bloke?’. I’m blowing my guts out and he’s talking and yapping and yapping’.”
Haha! Selwood also mentions that Kirk is his one of his all time favourite players and role models as a player.
There’s my trivia outburst for this evening! ..
Hey guys
Just thought id throw in my 2 cents.
I would def be taking Gibbs over Cornes. Ive had gibbs from the get go, and he is just starting to look the goods.
I think his upside is way more than Cornes. Im a gambler by nature so id rather take the risk on Gibbs that he may really hit his best form and start scoring 100+.
Cornes is a safe bet, BUT, will he enable you to win the whole comp?? Expecting 80-90s from a prem mid wont cut it with me. Anyway, ive never gotten close to winning the whole thing so my opinion prob doesnt count for much haha. cheers
You are deadset correct though Robocop. Those extra 40 or 50 points that Gibbs can produce could be the difference you’d want to get your team over the line. Kornes will rarely pull the 140′s and 150′s that Gibbs did regularly last year.. hmmm… You’ve wooed me backover to Gibbs’ camp now i think! Haha
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